Andy Pettitte is the best person that can tell the Andy Pettitte story and he does so in this five minute video. Andy touches on everything from his relationship with God, his HGH use, and so much more. It is a very touching story and everyone needs to watch this. This is Andy Pettitte Day.
Incredible Christian man.
ReplyDelete100% agreed
DeleteAndy is and will always be a great human being. I feel honored to personally know him as we both grew up in the same hometown.
ReplyDeleteReally Scott, that is awesome! Put in a good word for us, lol.
DeleteWhat a tremendous testimony. Wish there were more professional players with his character & integrity!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely! Class and professionalism oozes out of his pores. No one is harder on Andy Pettitte than Andy Pettitte is.
DeleteWow! He cheats in his chosen profession, and we are supposed to somehow honor him because he says he loves God. I guess there is a lesson here for all the other cheaters. Just say you love God, and its all better.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he is hiding behind his Christianity or saying that because he is a christian he is better or should be forgiven. The fact that he is a godly man and admits to his mistakes should show you that he is one of the few that actually take the word to heart.
DeleteThink of it this way, when you go to church are you sitting in a room full of sinners or saints?
No secret the World is full of sinners and cheaters, most just don't get caught. And I'll admit it takes strength to admit and own up to your mistakes. Just forgive me if I have a hard time swallowing his story. He only used it to recover from an injury, poor guy, and he only did it twice, or at least two times that someone had proof of. Well first of all, they all used it to recover from injuries, and in between starts. That's what makes it a PED. Second if he didn't show up in the report, would he have been so "upfront" about it? I'm sure he is a "good" guy, but he, and all the cheaters deserve asterisks by all career achievements. And the Hall of Fame should just create a new wing for those who cheated the sport, its fans, and themselves, and tarnished the sport of baseball.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous...
DeleteIf using a Non-band substance is cheating, then one would have many of the mid1900's in another wing alone with Andy, A-Rod and a plethora of players now in the hall. They used what is called Greenies, they sharpened ones reactions, cut down your hunger pains and many more things.
HGH is bad because it helps one recover from injuries and builds power.
19-28
Old Ranger,
ReplyDeleteCheating is cheating is cheating be it greenies, HGH, corked bats, sand paper, Vagicil, putting snot on the ball, and yes there is always a time BEFORE the substance is discovered to enhance performance, that it is NOT a banned substance. Its still cheating.
If you wanna ban Andy or segregate him you have to segregate EVERYONE before the testing because we dont know and will never know who was clean and who wasnt.
DeleteAgreed. The new room at the Hall should just be labeled Steroid/HGH Era, and ALL the players who set records during that time are in that room only. Nearly everyone was doing it. The only guy who comes to my mind that I would say with near certainty didn't use was Ken Griffey Jr. He was injured too much to have been, and never dramatically changed in size, and didn't magically IMPROVE with age when the body naturally starts slowing down.
ReplyDeleteGriffey was on the same team as Alex Rodriguez and broke down big time physically right around the time the game was being cleaned up. I have no doubt in my mind that Griffey did it but thats just a matter of opinion at this point. I think he was injured BECAUSE of the steroids.
DeleteDaniel.....TWASP agrees with you here.....i dont know why fans place Griffey on a pedestal... he did PEDS too. very few players had the integrity to pass on the drugs. only those with great character like Jeter stayed clean.
DeleteI followed Andy's career. I saw him pitch in high school and at San Jac. He's an amazing talent and by all accounts a good person, but cheating is cheating. And every single player that did sent the wrong message to kids, cheated the sport they love, and its fans. And for what? To make themselves look better. Selfish. I'm not saying he was as bad as the most obvious ones, but he still cheated. Bottom line.
ReplyDeleteHow in the hell did they cheat the fans and the sport? The sport was coming off of a strike and dwindling attendance. The fans are watching baseball to be entertained. Steroids brought people back to the game and kept people entertained. Steroid users did not cheat anyone as anyone and everyone could have done it. I am not saying it was ok, because in the end it probably wasnt okay even though it wasnt technically against the rules, but I think people look far too much into this.
Deletethe biggest cheater was the Aroid. he was very skinny. then he went to Cansenco house and became huge. just like MacQuire. the seattle Mariners had testosterone parties with Aroid Buhner Griffey and Edgar Martinez. hell there is a string possibility Aroid was doing it back in HS with his cousin.
ReplyDeletereggie jackson Lived with a known steroid dealer for years. true story look it up. everyone wants an edge. but Aroid goes one step beyond and thinks he is holier than baseball.
to be fair though A Rod was skinny when he broke in but he was still a teenager. Sure he got bigger and was bigger in his Texas years and first few Yankees years then he is now but he was not Barry Bonds who went from crack head to UFC fighter in an off season.
DeleteDaniel, you are wasting your time with Twasp...
DeleteHe is the only guy I know that can't understand what he reads, unless it fits the way he thinks.
He is a real HATER of A-Rod, I don't care for Jeter (personal reasons) but, I don't hate him at all, he is a Yankee.
How many times is it said of a player, "He will have HR power as he ages?" Well, in some cases, a football player has the power but needs a bit more ageing to fill out his frame.
ReplyDeleteA-Rod was a football player in high school and came up at the age of 18. At the age of 20 he started to hit HRs at a nice clip...news flash; large boned people fill out just as everyone else, so don't use his size as a reason for knowing he was using.
One other fact about HGH/PEDs, after a few years of use they break down the bone structure...starting with ones feet/legs.
Let's face it, if he were not A-Rod the hated one, he would be getting a pass as has everyone else.
He cheated, that is the bottom line, but to say he always was cheating is ludicrous...20 years, get real!
I never said he was "always" cheating. And I assume we are talking about Pettite. I said I doubted his story about the extent of his use.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the rest of baseball, one only has to look at the across the board rise in power hitters to know something was rotten in Denmark.
As far as size goes as an indicator of steroid use or HGH, yes in certain players you can track a marked difference. Barry Bonds? Hello? These guys had the money to pay scientists at labs to concoct all sorts of programs and regimes to enhance their performance. And all to make them better! Again, a travesty of selfishness and greed.
I dont really think it is selfishness or greed but I was wrong once. Look at Arod and his last steroid allegation. A Rod had the last contract he was ever going to get and that contract was guaranteed. He had nothing to gain from continuing to do steroids and everything to lose.. doesn't sound like selfishness to me. Sounds like he genuinely wants the Yankees and their fans to win. Again, doesn't make it okay, but it is what it is when you take the "omg you're a cheater" blinders off.
DeleteSure. It was all for the Yankees organization and the Fans!!???!! What are you smoking? I'm certain its a banned substance. These guys didn't do it for some pie in the sky, rah, rah, I just want to win BS! Who is the one wearing blinders? They did it for themselves! For their own bloated ego, because deep down, they all just want to be known as "the best", they did it for the glory, for the groupies, the fame, to see themselves on magazine covers, and highlight reels. They DEFINITELY were NOT doing it for "the team" or "the fans". Wake up dude!
ReplyDeleteI'm awake. I am not the one forgetting that Alex has the glory, see the 2009 World Series, the groupies, the fame, Alex has the magazine covers, Alex has the highlight reels. The only thing Alex lost from doing steroids is the Hall of Fame and 25 million bucks next season.
DeleteI reiterate that Alex had more to lose doing steroids, especially the second time, then he had to gain. He has the two largest contracts in baseball history, he has his world series ring, he's got all the friends and fans he could ever want regardless of the allegations and suspensions.
Alex may not have been shooting up saying "this is for you Yankees fans" or "this is for you Hank and Hal" but his intentions were not as selfish as you make them out to be. He wants to win another ring and wants to win it on the Yankees. He could approve a trade, he wont. He could force a trade, he hasn't. He could have walked away for less money and less stress, he didnt. He wants to win and he wants to win on the Yankees. If you deny that or say otherwise I cannot agree with that.
anonymous is right Daniel.....you sound as naive as the old ranger now.
ReplyDeleteArodi did the drugs so he could hit homeruns. So he could have more homeruns than anyone else has ever had.
so he could get the fame and the glory
and old ranger why do you think Aroid is singled out? because he is a self absorbed D-bag who tries to pick up girls while he is in the dugout.....and the Yankees are losing.......dont you get it yet..?
He already had the fame and the glory and lost all that the first time he got popped with a steroid allegation. He had nothing to gain from the second time
Deletelisten Daniel....i had my day .....but i kept on keeping on.....get it? you know why? to keep the ho's.... da bitches they like the power. Long homeruns..... make them wiggle......see my gravatar.....
ReplyDeleteYou're a funny guy
DeleteThe point is this, its like Pringles, "Once you pop, you can't stop!". Once a person or a player uses a substance that generates a feeling, produces an effect. They can not go back. They can not regress. They can't take the dip in performance. Their ego won't let them. Its called ADDICTION and it is a real thing. And you're right, there was no rational reason for it. Its completely self absorbed and irrational.
ReplyDeleteI believe Andy has not gone back
DeleteOne thing everyone seems to forget here......A-Rod has not been proven guilty yet. Only allegations have been made. When he is found to be guilty...personally, I think he is (but hope not), that is the time to say how much one dislikes or in twasps world..Hates him!
ReplyDeleteIf one believes all the stuff in the media and on the blogs about A-Rod...you must believe in Global Warming, or the Ice Age or whatever they call it this year!
One other point, I know of NO baseball/basketball player that could take all the sh-t that has been thrown his way since he became a Yankee...90% of which has been proven wrong the rest (other than Drugs) is his business. My goodness, one must be jealous of A-Rod having his girlfriend feed him popcorn to think that is a crime!
If you believe in the Ice Age you have to believe in global warming, lol.If the world was frozen it seems like the globe has been warming up ever since then lol.
Deletelisten up......the big T......in da house
ReplyDeleteIm not jealous when Arod is being fed popcorn by some skinny ass, bulemic white girl.
me i be sippin some gin and juice ..... with my mind on my money and my money on my mind.
She wasn't that hot anyway, now Torri Wilson on the other hand...
DeleteEnough about A-Rod. Not sure how he even came up, but back to pitching,( remember Andy Pettite? Where this all started? ) All caps should be tipped, all hands should be clapped, and no one should be sitting...... Congratulations #42! The best to ever take the mound in the 9th inning! A class act, and secured many wins for Andy, and many others in Pinstripes!
ReplyDeleteAmen!
DeleteAs far as, "How did they cheat the fans and the sport?". A question I really think is too stupid to answer, let me break it down for you. Baseball is "America's Pass time." with a long, rich, storied glorious past. The players who made it the game it is did not have steroids and hgh. Now certainly players have always looked for an edge. But the players of the "modern era". PISSED all over the game. They do not deserve to be mentioned along with Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Mantle. et al THATS how they cheated the game and its fans! They were not as good as they appeared to be. And to put them in the sacred Hall of Fame without pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they gave themselves is a travesty. If you can't see that, YOU have "issues."
ReplyDeleteThe idea that cheaters didn't crop up in baseball, or sports in general, until the past 20 years is laughable. PEDs in one form or another have been around for decades. Steroids first popped up in the US in the 50s, while amphetamines have been around since the 60s. And let's not forget the fact that there are known cheaters already in the Hall of Fame. For God's sake, Gaylord Perry wrote a book in which he admitted to using the spitball (while he was still playing, mind you), and still got voted into the Hall.
DeleteThe Dead-Ball Era, blacks not being allowed to play in MLB... there have been unfair advantages and disadvantages happening in baseball for as long as the sport has been around. So don't give me this "the game was pure before" bull. The only reason it's such a story now is because it's easy for people like myself to go on and on about it, where back before the internet the only people that you heard from were sportswriters or sports newscasters. And before cable television there were even less people to write about the problem. It's just like how people think crime is up in this country, as opposed to the "good ole days". WRONG! Crime is actually down, but you hear about it a hell of a lot more thanks to 24-hour news channels, Twitter, and the millions of blogs and websites that are available to people with a just a few clicks of the mouse.
So get out of here with this idea that PEDs are a new problem.
One final thing... Mickey Mantle was a drunk. Alcohol kills more people in this country than steroids, amphetamines, and just about everything else COMBINED. Love the Mick for what he did for the Yankees, and respect him as one of the greatest players of all time, but don't tell me he was some sort of stand-up guy while demonizing guys like Alex Rodriguez. Last I checked, nobody has ever been killed in a car accident caused by somebody under the influence of a performance enhancing drug.
The thing missed is...Alcoholism is a sickness, not a choice of life.
DeleteWhat a player he was, one of the greatest! Could have been much better without the drinking and injuries.
OldRanger...... liberal crybabies call drunkeness a disease.....waaaaaaaaah. .....
DeleteIf it walks like a drunk, talks like a drink.........then it is ..........Mickey Mantle.
Anonymous.......who are you? Twasp agrees with you .....the cheaters hurt the game. How? the beauty of baseball is the way fans love it and dissect it and study statistics about it.....cant get enough. who is better than who? who broke what record. but then the cheaters made it impossible to compare players of different generations.....it was no longer an even playing field. would Aroid be approaching 700 homeruns without Boli? No way. But he will finish ahead of Mantle and Mays who were not bulked up.
ReplyDeleteJust a man who loves the game. The guy earlier made the point that steroids brought the game back. Maybe it did, but at what costs. Kids growing up watching Sosa and MacGwire battle for the record were cheated. Once Pandoras box was opened and everyone started jacking bombs all juiced up, these kids just thought that's the game. Sure a lot of jaded fans came back, but at what cost? Now there is a whole generation of fans who run the risk of losing interest because it was all fake. Look how long 61 stood. How long 714 stood. To me that's the beauty of the game, these once in a lifetime achievements by human beings. What kid didn't grow up dreaming of standing at the plate, pointing to the outfield, calling your shot. Now, maybe, all our old time heroes would've been on the juice too. BUT the fact remains....... THEY were NOT. And in my mind, this "steroid era.". Is a blight, a dark spot, a cancer on the game I LOVE. And I do not forgive them, I will not make excuses for them, and I will not HONOR them. And when I take my grandchildren to the Hall, like my grand father did me. I will be sure to inform them of the difference between the TRUE Hall of Famers, and all the FALSE ones.
ReplyDeleteThey were juicing before McGwire and Sosa, remember Jose Canseco?
DeleteBrian Van Douchebag,
ReplyDeleteGet a clue man. First off steroids and amphetamines have been around FOREVER. Steroids are a naturally occurring hormone, and the cocoa plant grows naturally the same as the coffee bean.
And alcohol is a depressant that dulls the senses and slows reaction time, hence the danger of drinking and driving.
Also, I never once mentioned the moral fiber of old time players. If you seriously believe that the science of PED's did not change in the past twenty years, you sir, are blind, def, and dumb.
And I am on record saying cheating of any kind is intolerable. And that any and all cheaters should be exposed as such.
A look at statistics reveals a dramatic increase in power during the "steroid era" across both leagues. Why? Just a coincidence I guess. Perhaps in the 50's when steroids were "invented" according to you players just lacked the money to buy them. Or in the 60's when amphetamines were "created" the majority of players just chose not to use them. Because if you are trying to say that PED usage has always been as rampant as it has in the past twenty years, you are just plain ignorant.
BTW...
Delete"The players who made it the game it is did not have steroids and hgh."
Wrong. As I pointed out, steroids came about long before Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, etc. Were they as "good" as before? Probably not. But the point is steroids were still around. So again... wrong.
"But the players of the "modern era". PISSED all over the game"
So cheaters in the past get a pass, but cheaters of the present are not only are made into villains, but are being accused of PISSING all over the game? And why is that, again? Because steroids and other PEDs of today are better than they were before? What happened to cheating is cheating, no matter what level it is on?
Bryan,
DeleteYou seriously believe that steroids and HGH were being used by the players who made it the game it is? Ted Williams? Babe Ruth? Mickey Mantle? DiMaggio? Please! Then explain the spike in home run totals from '96 through '06?
The rampant usage of steroids and hgh in the modern era is an atrocity far worse than any ball scuffing, spike sharpening, alcohol drinking, cigarette or tobacco using of the past. Where is your proof that any player was using steroids before "the big bang?". I can show you across the board increases in stats to support my allegations. And I stand by them. The modern player during the "steroid era" when the MLB as a whole was over 5000 long balls a season for nine years straight, PISSED ALL OVER THE GAME!
No, I don't BELIEVE steroids were used long before 1996... I know they were. Want examples?
DeleteIn 1889 a pitcher by the name of Pud Galvin was known to use a testosterone supplement derived from the testicles of pigs and dogs, which was called Brown-Sequard Elixer.
In a book called The Baseball Hall Of Shames Warped Record Book Babe Ruth is accused of injecting himself with a substance made from the testicles of a sheep. However, it proved to be ineffective, and actually resulted in Ruth being ill and missing games. But the point remains the same... even The Babe tried PEDs.
Mickey Mantle was also accused of injecting a substance during his home run battle with Roger Maris. The substance he was injecting was known to have steroids and amphetamines in it. Unfortunately, due to a botched injection, Mantle had an abscess that hampered him.
Amphetamines have been used since World War 2. Both the Axis and Allied armies gave their troops amphetamines during the war. When the troops returned, they continued using the drugs. Yes... even in baseball.
Tom House, a pitcher drafted in 1967, admitted to taking "steroids they wouldn't give to horses". House went on to say that "six or seven" pitchers on every team used steroids and/or HGH, and if a team were beat they would joked that they'd been "out milligrammed".
Mike Schmidt, Goose Gossage, and even more players have admitted to using a PED of some sort during their career.
So who's the naive one now?
And again, they may not have been as advanced as they are now, but the point is the same... players used drugs in order to gain an advantage (aka "cheated").
Did steroids and/or HGH play a part in the home run totals during the mid 90s to mid 2000s? I'm sure it did. But that doesn't mean they were only part of the game during that 10 year stretch. Nobody's saying they weren't being used during that time, just that they weren't ONLY being used during that time.
My God... Who's being naive now?
My point is and has always been that cheaters should be noted as such. Period. And your arcane references about accusations made that players tried some sort of "snake oil" proves nothing. How many of the Babes home runs were due to PEDs? None. In fact according to your own story, if anything they hurt his performance. Of course players have always looked for an edge. I have said that. I never said cheating started recently, or that the years I mentioned were the only time players used. You twist words like a Rubik's Cube.
DeleteMy entire point is and has always been that cheaters should be noted as such PERIOD, today, tomorrow, yesterday. Any and all records set by players who are confirmed cheaters should be noted as such. PERIOD.
My other point you seem to relish trying to twist is that usage was more RAMPANT in the modern era than ever before. Do you know what rampant means? Instead of throwing out arcane references to a couple of older players try refuting my point. You can't you didn't. You seem content to try to create your own argument in which you are the winner.
Let me say it again: the modern athlete who makes more money thus has more disposable income, who plays in a time when the chemistry of PEDs peaked, used them to a greater degree and with greater success than any other players in the history of the game. As such, their achievements can not and should not be compared to players of the past.
As far as I am concerned at this point they SHOULD be using. They have already ruined the game. There is no turning back. Legalize it all and let's see just how many home runs can be hit before someone literally swings their own arms off.
Also, for future reference you can just say, "go look at Wikipedia" seeing as you basically did a cut and paste.
DeleteAs a matter of fact, that is pretty much all I did. Which is funny. I mean, if it was that easy for me, then why didn't you do that yourself? Unless you purposely didn't do that, because you want to hold onto this silly belief that the game was pure before 1996.
DeleteWow. I NEVER said the game was pure before 1996. That's what YOU said I said.
DeleteHey Daniel,
ReplyDeleteI didn't say Sosa/Maguire STARTED anything. Pay attention! YOU said "steroids" brought back baseball's popularity. And I was using Sosa/McGwire as an example, because their battle that year brought a lot of fans back to the game, and garnered a lot of public attention.
You said that kids were cheated watching McGwire and Sosa and I simply said that they were cheated before then, ie Jose Canseco. I didnt say that the home run chase and those men started with them and I did not say that you said that either so maybe I am not the one who needs to pay attention. Maybe it's the one who hides behind the anonymous tag ;)
ReplyDeleteInteresting that few people know that Reggie Jackson LIVED with a known drug dealer for years. When he was questioned about Reggie's use the dealer said Reggie never used. I dont know, i once saw him hit a HR off of a light tower on top of Detroit Stadium.
DeleteTwasp...
DeleteI was going to use Reggie as an example of a user but I deleted it.
He came up as a slender speedy hard hitting CFer then all of a sudden he is beefed up and hitting monster HRs. Did he use....just as with Cano and Jeter, did they use, who the heck knows!
I doubt the two Yanks did...Reggie...????
I guess, I just didn't expect that you were "agreeing" with me, my bad. Sometimes its hard to tell the tone someone is taking when you are just reading their words. I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteIt's no big deal buddy and no need to apologize. I should have made myself more clear. At the end of the day we are all baseball fans and New York Yankees fans and I can appreciate someone who is passionate enough about this sport and this team to take the time out of their lives to talk and debate with me/us.
DeleteI'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong, and to apologize for my mistakes. That is one thing I give to Petitte. Clemens took the deny till you die approach. Andy "manned up.". He will always have my respect for that. And I do wish more players could display that much integrity. It doesn't change what they did. It doesn't make it right, but it WOULD make a difference. It WOULD go a long way toward redemption. And it WOULD set the record straight. Andy does not display the selfish, egotistical tendencies a lot of the other players do. Like I said, I believe him to be a good person. But that is also why he didn't keep using, and he was able to admit it.
ReplyDeleteThat is absolutely right. Obviously this will change when these men come up for the Hall of Fame but you hear much less about the Andy Pettitte's, Jason Giambi's, etc of the world that admitted it, took their punishment (when applicable), and moved on then you do about the Ryan Braun's, Alex Rodriguez's, Rafael Palmeiro's, Sammy Sosa's, Mark McGwire's etc
DeleteActually Daniel/Anon...Andy and Jason both lied about it at first, then admitted it! Many fans wish it were not so but, dat's da truff!
DeleteWhat many say about Andy and who he is as a player and person, makes me believe him as to the why and all the other stuff. He made a mistake.
If one would bother to check the stats, one may find a big reason for the HR overwhelming the game.
ReplyDeleteAbout the time they lowered the pitching mound, the advantage went to the batter, then they started to let batters put all kinds of padding and helmets on and dive across the plate. pitchers had nowhere to go with their pitches.
As far as cheating goes, in every era in baseball there were cheaters of one sort or another!
As for Ryan, Alex, Rafael, Sammy, Mark and all the rest...has any of them ever been given a 210 game suspension or told they may get suspended for life if they take advantage of the MLB collective bargaining contract? None at all, why one guy, everyone else got 50 games...again why 210?
They can get tough as they want to on suspensions but, to come up with this out of the blue is BS.
We can dislike a player but, this is going way over the line, Ryan had two strikes against him and still only missed 50 games. A-Rod has one strike and he gets 210 games...enough games to put him out of baseball because of his age, guilty or not...anyone would fight that and he has that right...Bud can't take that away from him or anyone else.
A-Rod should give it up and quit but, not be banned for that many games...although it will help the Yankees if he loses arbitration.
This crap of giving passes to some guys because they are good guys is BS...Cheaters are cheaters and should be treated alike not one singled out for additional time.
Bottom line; A-Rod is history but, not anymore so than the rest of them!
End of story...for me!
28-14
Google: home runs per year MLB. The first thing that pops up is a year by year breakdown of home runs in the MLB since 1901. Scroll down that list and draw your own conclusion.
ReplyDeleteHey Ranger,
ReplyDeleteThe mound was lowered from 15" to 10" in 1969. So please, don't try to use that to explain away the steroid era.
ha ha TWASP loves when OldRanger logic is found faulty.
ReplyDeleteoldRanger will go to such depths to defend Aroid that he will even say PEDS didnt cause the HR increase. that Mound heights did .....Hilarious.
Hay, I just pointed out the fact that HRs have increased over the last 30 +/- years and one could be the mound another could be the smaller walls. Whatever the reason, and there are many media people who say everything, other than the Drugs!
ReplyDeleteI am not a big fan of people who can't understand what they read...so be it.
28-14
Ranger,
ReplyDelete"Hay" is for horses. And home runs have steadily increased since the beginning of baseball. What exactly was your point? I'm sure you know, but see the trick to communicating is doing so in a way other people can understand. Or else what is the point? Certainly dimensions of ball parks have a lot to do with it, some early parks were massive in comparison to modern ones. And there were a few facilities later on which housed both football and baseball, which had much larger foul territory, and usually astro turf. Larger parks, dead air domes, lead to more teams playing "small ball." which translates to less homeruns. Certainly there are lots of variables which play into the equation. Number of teams in the league is a huge one. More teams should obviously lead to more home runs over all. Expansion was done in 1977. The league had the same number of teams from 77 till 93 when the Marlins and Rockies came along. Look up home run totals by league overall in the baseball almanac. There will always be up years and down years, but 1998 is the first year EVER more than 5k HR's were jacked league wide, and it stayed over 5k even going over 5500, twice, until 2006. They were back up again last year, but its obvious the league is still NOT cleaned up completely. Anyone with half the sense God gave a horse can see there is only ONE conclusion to be drawn. And it isn't the height of the mound, which did lead to a rise in home runs back in 1969 when it happened. From '77-'92 the league averaged 3395.5 home runs per year, taking out the strike shortened year. From '93 after two more teams were added to '97 the year before the 5k mark was broken, the league averaged 4203.8, that's an increase of 808.3 home runs per year simply adding two teams! Then from '98 to '06 the league averaged 5317.8 per year! That's another increase of 1114 HR's PER YEAR for nine years straight over 5k per year. A net increase of almost 2000 home runs per year simply by adding two expansion teams. Wow. Now that I look at the numbers, you are right. It HAD to be the mound!
Now go into your bedroom shrine to Gayrod, and talk to his poster, and live happily in your fantasy world with all these other people who seem content to disregard the FACTS, me I KNOW they were all cheating, and many still are....... numbers don't lie.
Anonymous and twasp team up, oh, that is priceless!
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand where anyone reading my comments can get the idea I am sticking up or making excuses for A-Rod or anyone cheating.
Everyone knows he cheated, which in my books his unacceptable and unforgivable...along with lies!
But to say things like; "He was using as far back as high school" is a bit much, even for A-Rod haters! Just trying to be fair that's all!
The stats given by Anon are well-known by most if one looks but, stats don't show the whole story, do they? Making HGH etc., the reason for the rise in HRs means, you and some others must be saying all the big time HR hitters are users. Can this be true? I don't think so.
By the way, numbers can lie if used the wrong way. Example; Andy is the winningest pitcher in post game history but not in WS history. Andy did a damn good job and it may take many years for someone to break his record.
I think we have had enough of this stuff, it helped destroy one site, I will not go there with this one. So take your best shots, and answer yourselves at the same time, I doubt anyone else will...not me anyhow. Bye, bye!
28-14
oldRanger.....good healthy debate does not destroy baseball sites.....it invigorates it. just because posters like Anonymous and Fish disagree with your analysis does not mean they are "ganging" up on you. Some advice if I may......you will get along better with other posters and will enjoy these baseball internet sites if you look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself " do i need to be less stubborn" " do i need to stop blindly defending Aroid?" "should i admit i was wrong when i said Jeter was washed-up 3 years ago? and would never hit 300 again? " should i admit my theory on the mound lowering not peds being the cause of the dramatic increase in HRs was ridiculous?
DeleteDebate does not kill baseball sites but name calling and all that makes it pretty unattractive for other potential posters. Not that it has been happening much outside of "Bryan Van Douchebag" comment. Let's just try and keep that to a minimum and we will be fine.
DeleteRanger,
ReplyDeleteSorry if I got a little "rough" with you, but your naivety is astounding. From 1977 to 1992, fifteen years of baseball with many great players and "power" hitters. The entire MLB, both leagues added together averaged 3395.5 HR's. What changed? The mound was already lowered? What could possibly explain a jump of close to (on average) 2000 more home runs per year? What? Please explain it to me then. All that was added were two more teams to make it different from the fifteen years between '77 and '92. The MLB went on a nine year run of over 5000 home runs per year. Nine years in a row. Explain that. And as far as your statement that it is somehow "impossible" that, that many players could be using,.......why? Why is that hard to believe? Clinical studies have shown that steroid/HGH use could easily lead to a 50-100% increase in home runs hit for a player, and contrary to popular belief, an increase in bat speed as well. Back from '77 to '92, power guys hit between 30-40. So it actually wouldn't take EVERYONE doing it to get those numbers up. Luis Gonzales jacked over 50! Luis Gonzales! Open your eyes. And quit saying you are done, and then coming back for more.
Brady Anderson hit 50 too in 1996 which came out of NO WHERE.
DeleteWhat always kind of surprised me about the steroids era and failed tests and the Mitchell Reports and all that is just how many relief pitchers were using. Obviously these things are better suited for positional players and not pitchers because they did not seem to even the playing field at all.
TWASP KNOWS
DeleteIt sure turned Clemens career around
And who was the closer for the Dodgers that was basically unhittable for 2 seasons while juicing.?
Eric Gagne? Did he ever fail a test? I know at this point that does not matter I am just wondering.
DeleteGagne has written a biography where he admits he did PEDS. And says 80% of the dodgers.did them
DeleteI didnt know that, hmm. Sounds like an interesting read. Might check that out. Thank you
DeleteAnonymous.....did you ever post at YFU or iYankees? If i may ask...what handle did you use?
ReplyDeleteYou're right. My douche bag comment was bush league. I get a little out of control sometimes like telling Ranger he talks to his A-rod poster. But for some reason, I just got this image of Ranger like Steve Martin in the Lonely Guy sitting around with a bunch of A-Rod cut outs having tea and shooting the bull. Lol. Sorry Ranger, however much I disagree with some of your points, that was uncalled for too.
ReplyDeleteTwasp, I never really posted much before this. I used to think it was just a waste of time. But I have been enjoying myself.
Anonymous, yes it is fun commenting here. And dont worry about OldRanger he is a good man.....he will be back. ive been posting with him for 5 years.
ReplyDeleteA very agonizing 5 years, has it been that long. Heck, I was a young man back then...only 71!
DeleteAnon, I may not be as well versed in the way of written communication, it has been a long time...like back in the stone age...when I had Journalism in College. Mayhap, filling out reports and such has hurt my ability as far as you guys are concerned.
All one needs do is read what I write not what one wishes to pick at and turn around to make it look like something it is not. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have someone twist my written word and make it mean something it is not.
Twast...I was right about Jeter and I was wrong! I said he would digress as an infielder and not hit .300 any more...right? Admit it, I was half right...he hit over .300 but,....well I won't bring it up again!
I haven't gone anywhere at all, I just will not discuss A-Rod or your saint Jeter anymore.
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Ken....5 years we have been commenting on blogs together...at iYankees then YFU , then Pinstripe Pundits and now Greedy Pinstripes.
DeleteI know TWASP has been your favorite antagonist and has kept your blood boiling.
Don't throw in the towel just yet......
A funny thing happened on the way to my trying to understand where one got the idea...I wrote stuff a fan commented about as being THE reason for this and that happening. I wasn't the one being stubborn, I was trying to be fair to the guy everyone HATES. I can relate to some of the stuff he has had to put up with, not the hate part but, the jealous part. (Some of the guys from west point don't think much of R.O.T.C. people. To bad for them!)
ReplyDeleteOne big factor left out of the stats...at one time there were 64 starting pitchers then 80, then 120, now 140...and that is counting starters only. In the day, the big time hitters of the day faced 2 of 3 good pitchers on each team, later it was 2.5 of 4, now it is about 2 of 5!
Can you see what I am getting at here? There just are not that many good pitchers anymore, each team has 1 good pitcher and one #2, some have 2 or three but, not many.
The quality of hitters has gone up (one way or another) but the pitching has gotten weaker, therefore...more HRs and hits.
Again I am not saying the HGH etc., hasn't got anything to do with the HRs, just take the pitching and many other things and add them up...the game has shifted to the hitters. True or false?
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While HGH and other performance enhancing drugs have skewed the game one way or the other (we can debate this all day long), one of the big problems that has caused a change in the game from 50 years ago to day is money.
DeleteThe main reason pitchers don't throw 25+ complete games a season anymore has to do with the fact they make $20+ million a season. Teams invest so much money in these guys that they feel the need to protect their arms. How do they protect those arms? By cutting down on their workload.
And in doing so they've given hitters and advantage because, as you've pointed out, the quality of pitching across MLB has decreased.
OldRanger....you were right that Jeters defensive skills would erode.....but you exxagerate how bad they are. His consistency and sure hands have counterbalanced any range he has lost. And his bat and leadership and other intangibles have kept him the job. and thats why he was and probably next season continue to be the starting ss.
ReplyDeleteNunez , who we both agree is a very good player, and has a huge upside, lacks the consistency in the field that Jeter has. I feel Nunez will learn how to play SS better and with his lively bat and speed will get Jeters job eventually and become an All Star.
Daniel ...did you see the pop in Nunezs bat lately?
Bryan .... you need to watch Nunez closer......hes a PLAYER .....just like the TWASP!
I have seen the pop in Nunez bat maybe that means he is finally healthy and comfortable over at third base. I have him penciled in as my starting 3 B next season assuming A Rod gets suspended
DeleteI hope Nunez proves me and others wrong. But even if you don't believe that I have watched Nunez play enough, you can't argue with the numbers and the fact that they aren't there.
DeleteA .267/.313/.379 is bad, and the sample size (827 plate appearances) is not small. And while UZR is hardly a great stat, Eduardo's numbers there are low enough that they can't be ignored, either (-12.9, -24.9, and -33.9 at 2B, 3B, and SS).
Perhaps if he was to play one position, and not moved around so much, then he could settle in and improve greatly on those numbers. But that's the thing... he has a lot of work to do to improve them. We're not just talking about a few percentage points, we're talking about massive upgrades.
So again... can he do it? Possibly. But would I put my money on it? Not a chance.
I forgot to add...
DeleteWhen it comes to Jeter, he has always had good hands and consistency. That's not something that has come about since his range decreased. He's always had those things in his arsenal. So there is nothing to counter-balance his loss of range.
I think Derek is still okay at shortstop, and it won't kill me if he plays there regularly in 2014, but an improvement would be very nice.
Ranger,
ReplyDeleteI can see some credibility in the pitching aspect, but why would pitching be so much worse? I mean, one could flip that around and say with fewer pitchers pitching more innings, if anything they should've been hitting more home runs back in the day, as arms would've been more "tired.". Especially without HGH to help them recoup between outings. I am just a firm believer in the fact that use was rampant. I also believe "the league" was OK with it, sort of a don't ask don't tell. Our fan ratings are going up let's let sleeping dogs lie, and pretend we know nothing. Then, once Canseco needed drug money, and decided to start singing like a canary, they had a media nightmare on their hands. So now, they have to pretend to be appalled, and make examples out of people like A-Rod. The whole thing is a matter of degrees. The drugs used properly could make an average player above average. An above average player exceptional, and an exceptional player out of this world. So once it started no one wanted to be left behind. I DO believe it was very wide spread. And we will never know the full extent. But I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more tell-all books from those who need a payday.
To answer your question. True. It has switched to the hitters, and certainly there are more factors than just PED'S but I think all tho other factors combined, do not match the impact of steroids and HGH, and the science of engineering the right body chemistry to produce unbelievable results.
ReplyDeleteThere is little doubt that HGH etc., had a huge impact on the hitting factor. What I was trying to get at (very poorly) was; add all the other factors with HGH and one can see they combined to make the perfect storm, so to say.
DeleteI still contend, most of the players were NOT using anything...they didn't need too. I agree with you, that a great many were using and some are still doing it now!
Steroids, steroids...they will be here after I am gone as they were before most of you saw your first game! Back a year or two Whitey Ford and Yogi teamed up to cheat a lot. Yogi would drag the ball on the ground to scuff it up whenever Whitey need that one unhittable pitch. Mind you, not all the time but enough to help him get an out he really needed.
ReplyDeleteThus, you have the ball being replaced if it hits the ground.
Ty Cobb, the nastiest player to ever play baseball, showed he had a heart (once that I know of)...In a game they were winning Ty Cobb took off from 1st to break up a double play by bouncing the 2rd baseman into left field but, as he went into his slide he saw the kid straddling the base. In stead of sliding into him and breaking his leg he came up short...the double play was made! As Ty was dusting himself off he said to the kid (something like); don't do that again, someone will break your leg for you! I think you can guess what happened later that year...out of baseball for the kid!
There was the time Mickey swiped 3 bases (he was only given 2 because of an error). He came up to bat in a tie game (11th inning ?) against a pitcher he just had trouble hitting, so he said to the catcher; "Be ready I'm going to lay one down, this game is old!" Mickey was true to his word and beat the non-throw to 1st base. I keep thinking it was Billy Martin but, I recall (now) it had to have been Scooter at the plate. Mickey waved at Scooter and pointed to himself and then 2nd base, Scooter was somewhat confused at first but he took the pitch anyhow, Mickey took 2nd base without trouble. Then again at 3rd base and again was safe. After a conference on the mound by the other team, Mickey did it again for home plate. He took off on the pitch and made it because he beat the pitch but, the catcher bobbled the ball...ERROR!!!!...game over!
That is what the Yankee Drunk could do, he could beat you any and every way! I think it was Bobby Mercier who said one time, "We never thought we were out of a game, we had Mickey!"
Everything in quotes is what I can remember of what was said, but close enough to get the idea!
I never knew that story about the whole mickey mantle bunting and stealing 2nd, 3rd, and home to win the game. That was pretty interesting, thank you for the share
DeleteTwasp...
ReplyDeleteYou know me better than that, I never quit...I just get older! If I had been a quitter, I wouldn't be here today!
It's funny, my sister...the keeper of my history...came to visit the week of my last birthday. On the day of said birthday, she says, "How is to be 76 years old"? I said, I am only 74! She got out her trusty record book and showed me I was 76. The oldest Irishman in our line for 12 generations. Of course it's no big deal, most of them went off to some fight somewhere and were history before they were 35.
What a world us Irishmen live in, fighting and drinking...except I don't drink!
76 years old and still kicking arguing with us like a 26 year old, gotta love the heart. As an irishman myself, partly anyway, it makes me feel good about my longevity and scares me about my senile mind joke ;)
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ReplyDeleteFUBAR is what I did, sorry guys, still trying to get the hang of this thing!
ReplyDelete28-14
May I ask whats the "28-14" means?
DeleteDaniel - old Ranger - 28 wins and 14 losses when he plays his wife in MahJong.
ReplyDeleteGot ya! You gotta do better Ranger, she is a woman you should be stomping her lol
DeleteDaniel...that woman is a handful...90 lbs. of mean Vietnamese!
DeleteShe is a year or so younger than I am...well, maybe more!
Yeah I hear those Asian women are a lot to handle sometimes. I never found out myself unfortunately but damn I would love to. Wait, what are we talking about again?
DeleteThanks to whichever one of you guys did the fix...Daniel/Bryan
ReplyDeleteWas something broken?
Delete